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Now,” said I, “my dear Apollonides, you mathematicians1 say that the sun is an immense distance from the upper circumference and that above the sun Venus and Mercury and the other planets2 revolve lower than the fixed stars and at great intervals from one another; but you think that in the cosmos there is provided no scope and extension for heavy and earthy objects. You see that it is ridiculous for us to deny that the moon is earth because she stands apart from the nether region and yet to call her a star although we see her removed so many thousands of miles from the upper circumference as if plunged <into> a pit. So far beneath the stars is she that the distance cannot be expressed, but you mathematicians in trying to calculate it run short of numbers; she practically grazes the earth and revolving close to it
Whirls like a chariot's axle-box about,
Empedocles says,3
That skims <the post in passing>.

Frequently she does not even surmount the earth's shadow, though it extends but a little way because the illuminating body is very large; but she seems to revolve so close, almost within arm's reach of the earth, as to be screened by it from the sun unless she rises above this shadowy, terrestrial, and nocturnal place which is earth's estate. Therefore we must boldly declare, I think, that the moon is within the confines of <the> earth inasmuch as she is occulted by its extremities.

1 This is implied by the second person plural addressed to Apollonides, cf. 925 B infra and 920 F, 921 C supra.

2 For the order of the planets cf. Dreyer, History of the Planetary Systems, pp. 168-170, and Boyancé, Études sur le Songe de Scipion, pp. 59-65; the order here given is not the one adopted by most of the astronomers of Plutarch's time, by the later Stoics, or in all probability by Posidonius.

3 Empedocles, frag. B 46 (i, p. 331 [Diels-Kranz]).

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